Roderick's Feet in Vibram FiveFingers KSOs
A mere two days after locating and ordering my new pair of Vibram FiveFingers KSO’s from New York Kayak Company, they arrived on my doorstep. Efficient and pleasant service from NY Kayak Co and, for the first time in a long time, UPS delivered a package as scheduled and to the proper address!
I was thrilled to unpack these and pleased to see that they do indeed look precisely as I had hoped. My original trip to Appalachian Outdoors turned up only the black and the blue camo versions of the KSO, so I didn’t get to handle my color choice in person. If you’re looking to place a web or phone order, know that the Vibram site represents the appearance and color of the FFs well.
Upon putting them on though, I was a bit worried. I originally tried on a size 41 in the store and they felt as though they fit overall, but the smaller toes did have significantly more room than I anticipated, while the big toe almost filled out its little compartment entirely. I speculated that I may need a size smaller, but was very worried that even if the smaller toes were more snug in the next size down, the big toe would be crammed and cramped.
Thankfully the salesperson at Appalachian Outdoors convinced me that I would probably be fine with a 40 instead of a 41, but they didn’t have any KSO in any color in stock in a size 40 so I was unable to even try one on to confirm.
Before I found and placed my order with New York Kayak, I utilized the sizing guide over on the Vibram website. The guide is precise to within about an eighth of an inch, and my own measurement told me that yes, a 40 should be perfect. I highly recommend that you use the sizing guide before ordering a pair for yourself, and importantly – actually measure your foot with a ruler – don’t just guess or estimate.
So when I unpacked the box, slipped on my FiveFingers and discovered that, indeed, my big toe felt exactly at the end with a little bit of cramping, I was concerned.
But these things are supposed to be tight and, not having had any previous experience with them, I wasn’t sure at this point if I should panic or relax. A quick web search and perusal of a couple web forums revealed similar experiences by others, with the advice that if they feel a bit too tight at first, they will indeed “break in” over time, and that running in them will likely be fine.
I relaxed, put them on and just decided to roll with it for the time being.
Sure enough, just three days in and they are a perfect fit. And I really mean perfect! These things are so darn comfortable I don’t want to take them off! Any worries that I had about an uncomfortable and cramped big toe were completely eliminated with time (minimal, even!) and use.
If you’re one of those who just recently purchased a pair and you too are worried about the snug fit, I hope that my experience will help to put you at ease.
I’ve had a bit time to work with them and barefoot without them, and I’ll have a report of my progress soon.
If you’re looking for more personal experience regarding the fit of your FiveFingers, you can try some of the forums that I ended up on:
The CrossFit forums have threads here and here, while the Slowtwitch forum has one here. A quick web search will turn up even more.
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Thanks for posting this! I found your blog via a google search as I just put my new Vibrams on and was a bit worried that my big toe would be too cramped.
I didn’t have ANY to try on, so just went with the ruler measurement (10″ exactly, which for the sprints they say 40). Got them in, put them on and got real nervous. My other toes have plenty of wiggle room, but the big toe fills it out and feels “tight” when I “flex” it up.
Here’s to hoping it breaks in as you say!
@RPMcMurphy – thanks for the comment, and I’m glad that I was able to help out by making my opinion available to you!
When I first put them on and discovered the uncomfortably snug fit I immediately though “perhaps they’ll stretch”, which was quickly followed by “but they’re *rubber*! How in the world is *rubber* below my feet going to permanently stretch?” Nevertheless, whatever changes occurred through use have made the fit absolutely perfect.
If you get a chance, please do leave another comment after you’ve given it some time and use to let everyone know how it worked out for you. The more feedback we have publicly available, the more others in our situation will be able to make increasingly informed decisions.
Hope to hear from you!
So, a few days have went by, and I’m happy with the fit. I think it was just a strange feeling to wiggle your toes with such a snug fit, as when you do that in a normal shoe, you have space, with the Vibrams it’s like a sock. Once they broke in a little and once I got used to that, I love them! Even after my 20mile run this weekend, I put them on to see how they would feel after that, and it felt great.
With regular shoes you always worry about space for your toes/toenails, but I guess you have to think of the vibrams like a sock.
I think if I would have gotten a size bigger they would have been too big. As it is now I have a little bit of room in the heel.
Hi, I’m having the same issue. I measured my foot at 11 1/8″, so I bought KSO in size 44, and I just received them and have been concerned. I was initially leaning towards returning the for a size 45, but now I’m not so sure. When I put them on they fit mostly fine, though my big toe on one foot is a bit snug. If I flex my foot or lift my toe up they seem to put pressure on the tip on my big toe. All the other toes are fine, and the heel fits fine, with no extra room. It is not snug to the point of discomfort, but my concern is when I start running, will this put too much pressure onto my toe and cause pain? I’d love to take a run to test, but then I can’t return then. The other concern I have is that I bought Injinji socks to wear, which only complicates the matter and makes then tighter.
But now based on what you’ve said and the other forums, I might just continue wearing the around the house for another few days and see how they feel.
Russ – would love to hear about what you ultimately decide to do, but for what it’s worth, I thought that the snugness of the big toe upon flex would be a problem too. When I first started wearing them I was extremely conscious of even the smallest restriction, and I could feel it in a pronounced way when I flexed the toes up. It did ultimately go away. Of course, every foot is different and your mileage (literally and figuratively) may vary!
Best,
-Roderick
I googled “Vibram five fingers big toe” and found your site. I’m glad I did. Great site, by the way. You echoed the concerns I am having with the KSOs I just received from ZB sports today.
Actually, I am going through EXACTLY what Russ above described. Same size and everything. I was so happy to finally get the KSOs today, and then, as soon as I got them on I noticed my big toes felt slightly cramped at the ends as soon as I stood up. My other toes all have plenty of wiggle room. The pressure is not to the point where my big toes have to curl. It’s more just pressure on the ends of the toes. Naturally, I was kind of worried and bummed. I have been wanting these things for a couple of months now. After reading your comments and those of others, I am going to keep the 44s and see what happens over the next few days. I agree, it doesn’t seem logical that anything made of rubber could have a break-in period. But, maybe these, being a totally different kind of footwear do stretch a bit somehow.
I have had a pair of Injinji socks for a year now and rotate them in with my other running socks. I don’t like them as much as traditional socks with regular running shoes, but they and Five Fingers are a match made in heaven. They definitely make the KSOs fit a bit tighter, but not really in the length. They just take up more space around the toes. I am sure, with some running, they will loosen up a bit and be just fine. I hope that happens soon, because it looks like winter in Chicago is finally here.
As for running: Keep with it. I got off the couch in late 2005 and did my first marathon (Chicago) in 2006. This year, after my third, I added both barefoot and ChiRunning to my regimen. I keep to the “soft” track but hope the Vibrams will allow me to venture out into the rest of the world semi-barefoot. The ground is still a bit rough on my feet, but running sans shoes is wonderful.
Thanks so much for posting your comments and observations as well as those of others. I definitely feel better about my initial experience with the KSOs.
Just an update… So far I’ve decided to keep them. Wore them on a long walk with no socks, also running with the Injinji socks. They still feel snug if I focus my attention on them, but I think the fit is correct. My feeling is that it’s just because we’re so used to having room inside of sneakers that the snugness feels strange. I guess the fit just takes some getting used to. On both outings there were no problems and no discomfort, and while running I didn’t notice any pulling while my big toe was flexing. If I stop thinking about them being snug, I just feel like I’m barefoot. Had I returned then for a bigger size I think there would have been worse problems. I think having too much room might increase the chance of those toes snagging on the ground or getting stubbed.
As a side note, it’s amazing how much you can actually feel through the bottom of the shoes. Sand, grass, and mud texture can all be felt between my toes!
I did my first run in the KSOs today, and I have to report it was mixed but mostly positive. The toe pressure issue I originally experienced is (thankfully) pretty much gone. I wore the KSOs most of yesterday while at work and got to where they were quite comfortable. I like being able to move my feet while sitting at my desk.
So, today, I decided to forego my normal long run and do a short run in the KSOs instead. I mixed the terrain as much as possible, running on sidewalks, grass, and a crushed granite path. The hard surfaces seemed the easiest to run on thus far. I think that has to do with the lack of stability in the FFs. On grass, every time I hit a run or depression, my foot molded to it, and the rest of my body had to react. I know that will change as my feet and legs get stronger. I probably should run even less, as my longest barefoot run to date was only 3/4 mile on the track.
Running on sidewalks and the granite path was better than I had expected. Heading out, I was expecting my feet to hurt after only a block or so. That didn’t really happen at all. I had a little numbness in one of my big toes, but I think that was a result of it being cold (mid 30′s) and pushing off that toe a bit more than I should have. I focused on landing as much in the mid foot region as possible. The FFs make that surprisingly easy to do. My heel does still touch down, but really seems to just graze the ground. There is no impact.
The FFs definitely made using ChiRunning technique easier. Before, with Adrenaline GTS-9s, I really had to try to strike with the midfoot, but my heel would still come down pretty hard. With the FFs, I was instantly landing midfoot, and I could, for the first time, really get a good ChiRunning lean. The lightness of the FFs made kicking out the back ChiRunning style and preparing for the next step easier too.
I kept today’s run short and easy on purpose. My feet did get a little tired, but three hours post-run, they feel fine. I am looking forward to my next run in them. I have a 5.25 mile trail run coming up next weekend, but I don’t think I am ready to do it in the KSOs just yet.
Changing tack: Yesterday, I googled “new Vibram Five Fingers model” and found out they will be releasing a running version next year. It looks very sweet. They are definitely going about the development of the FF line in the right way. Check this out: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pEADhcSTYTU/SqaKpfdGdQI/AAAAAAAABUc/8hyJnasA0kE/s1600-h/VFF+Bikila.jpg
I look reading more comments about peoples’ experiences with the Five Fingers.
I’m thrilled to see such great feedback and thorough comments from you guys! I think we’re all discovering that yes, the Vibram’s *should* be more tight than we are used to. I think we’ve all discovered that tight is better than loose, and several here have mentioned that loose might encourage more injury and discomfort. I couldn’t agree more!
For what it’s worth, I recently got a new pair of the KSO’s – same size – due to the first pair developing a hole in the top of one of the toes. I think it was a fluke manufacturing issue. Hasn’t shaken my confidence in the product. But Vibram and New York Kayak Company did replace them, and New York Kayak was fast, thorough, efficient and drama-free.
Getting this new pair though has definitely reminded me of how much the original pair had broken in! I felt the same immediate “uh oh” upon putting the new ones on, due to the snug fit! Then of course I remembered our discussions here and my original experience, just accepted the fit, and went for a run.
My first run in them was 5 miles. After just a couple uses they are fitting perfectly, as with the last pair, but I would recommend this – walk your Vibram’s in, or only lightly run for the first few miles or so. They break in quickly, but an immediate new-from-box to a five mile run left my big toe a little tender. No blister. No chaffing. Just tender. Since then they’ve been fine. But to avoid the initial irritation, I’d suggest walking in them for a few miles before running.
@Aaron – interesting that you say running on hard surfaces seems easier. I tend to agree, and for me it’s because I can really concentrate on my form. The other surfaces are softer, which sometimes feels “better” (I suppose…), but I’ve found that I’m more likely to change my stride to an unnatural and unhealthy one as the ground becomes more soft. Add to that the constant “on the ready” of my body for those depressions, etc., that you mention, and I find that I’m more tense too. Practice makes perfect I suppose, though…
As for your big toe going numb… I’d definitely watch the push-off. The temp, once you’re warmed up, seems like it would be fine. I’ve recently been running in some colder temps and mid-30′s seems fine. Being from Chicago, you’re undoubtedly from hardy stock.
Were your feet cold to the touch after the run?
I’m going to be posting a short blog about my cooler weather experiences with the Vibrams. Would love to have your feedback there, being from a colder climate yourself, when it goes live! And for what it’s worth, I recently spoke with a Vibram rep directly and they stated that they do *not* recommend them if there’s snow accumulation. Of course, that can mean a lot of things, and I’m just going to continue testing them in a wide range of conditions to find my personal comfort level.
@Aaron – love the link to the forthcoming model! I think they look cool as hell, despite what all the people in my personal life think…
I think you are absolutely right about the push off with the big toe. I will have to watch that.
My feet were fine through about 75% of my 2.8 mile run yesterday. On the last stretch back to my house, I was starting to feel the effects of the cold temps a bit, but it wasn’t bad. I felt more of a numbness or stiffness than actual cold. That could be chalked up to a couple of factors, most likely of which is that it was my longest “barefoot” run to date. Honestly, I know I overdid it, but I was enjoying myself. I am paying the price a bit today. My calvs are pretty sore. My 7-mile long run (in Adrenalines) was good, but not spectacular due to the soreness. I am looking forward to the day I can do my long runs in the FFs.
I wore Injinji Tetra socks with the KSOs yesterday. They seem to be a bit thicker than Injinji Performance model. They did the job nicely, although when I got home, I ordered three pair of the Performance Injinjis from Zappos. I am eager to see how they feel in the KSOs.
Because the snow is coming this week, I plan to move my running indoors. The University of Chicago has a great fieldhouse with a 200m track, which is close to both my home and office. I ran through the winter there last year and enjoyed it a lot. I spent many a lunch hour running comfortably while everybody else was freezing their butts off outside or simply not running at all. I was raised on the West Coast, so I can only tolerate running outside in Chicago up to a point. My cutoff the past three winters seems to be about 20 degrees. Anything below that is just plain unpleasant, especially with the wind that we usually have off the lake. I can’t imagine being out in cold like that in KSOs. Flows, maybe, but definitely not something made primarily of mesh. I agree: they are not cut out for the snow.
I plan to watch closely to see when the new running FFs will be released. The Shamrock Shuffle in March is an awesome early-Spring race here in Chicago, and I would love to start the year off in a pair of the new FFs.
This is really helpful, thanks for posting! I just received my Sprints in the mail tonight (the KSO’s are COMPLETELY sold out everywhere I check; I’m hoping the Sprints are good as well). My big toe feels snug, especially when I flex upwards – sounds pretty much the same to what everyone else is saying! Hopefully, they just need a little bit of breaking in. I’ll let you know; thanks for posting!
Jessica: Definitely give them a week or two. It is odd, but the FFs do stretch or relax after a while. Start off with very short runs every other day or so and then build from there. If you can wear the FFs around the house or at work, that’s even better. Also, be sure to do range of motion exercises with your toes and ankles and stretch your calves religiously. I am now running up to about 4 miles in my KSOs with no problems other than sore calves. I ran in 30 degree weather today with KSOs and Injiji socks. My big toes were a bit numb post-run, but I am sure it was from the cold, not the shoes. If you live somewhere cold, the socks help. They crowd the toes, but you get used to it. Just avoid stepping on rock salt. I found out the hard way today how much that hurts in the FFs. No matter where you run, expect to get a lot of strange looks and questions. A guy stopped me today and said he saw Dr. Phil wearing them on tv. I’m not sure what to think about that.
@Jessica – Great advice here from Aaron! Yes, definitely stick with it Jessica, and let us know (if you can and are so inclined) how it progresses for you. Sounds like your experience has been precisely like ours here, and I would expect a similar outcome.
@Aaron – I still haven’t made that post about my cold weather running yet (it’s sitting in draft format still!) but I’m glad to see that you’re sharing your own recent experience here!
I don’t yet own a pair of Injinji, but I’ve been running down into the mid-20′s, including some very wet runs in the slush, and I’ve found that after about a mile everything gets nice and toasty!
I too have been averaging 4 and 5 miles in the FFs lately and have discovered precisely what you have, Aaron. Tight calves that I need to stretch religiously. Some days it’s worse than others, and it seems to be precisely related to my degree of lean combine with relaxation. It was the worst towards the beginning of the longer runs and has eased over time, and that is due undoubtedly to reinforcement of the muscles combined with the attention to form. I suspect from here on out it will be more form related for me, as I think the muscle has finally caught up to the activity. I’ve been working hard on finding that perfect window of lean.
All that to say, I’m glad to have good company…
Just got a pair of FF Classics for Christmas, and am super excited to use them to get running back into my lately-sedate life. I have two concerns about the fit, though. The first is the same big-toe issue that’s been discussed here, so I’m looking forward to that resolving itself with use. The second is that the smaller toe compartments also feel too short–especially the third toe. The compartment is long enough that my toe fits in, but if my foot isn’t on the floor, it feels like the shoe is pulling it to curl under. All this is only on the right foot, which is exactly the same length as the left foot, but nearly half an inch wider (effectively making that shoe shorter?). I’ve been considering getting the next larger size just for the right foot, but it’s not exactly a cheap proposition. Do y’all think this will resolve as the big toe issue seems to, even though my smaller toes seem less likely to have the fortitude as a big toe when it comes to breaking in a shoe?
Dorothee – while my opinion is by no means authoritative, this is how I’d approach it…:
Let’s assume that your big toe issues are exactly the same as the ones that all of us above have reported. If that’s the case, the situation will resolve itself with use.
Your left foot you describe as fitting well (save for the slightly tight big toe), so it’s your right foot that is the issue. It’s significantly wider, and you suspect that the width is pulling the material more taught, thereby cramping primarily your third toe as well as your big toe. The good news is this – we’ve all been surprised by the rubber “breaking in”, and given that we’ve experienced that it (oddly) does, I find it even more plausible that the fabric – the constricting factor on your right foot, which is pulling everything more tight in all directions, will loosen up even easier than the rubber with a bit of wear! So I say go for it. Break ‘em in and see where you stand.
Think of it like this – you were considering getting one size larger for *only your right foot* anyway. If the left fits now, and you *do* have to trade up for a larger size on the right, then you won’t be looking to return the original pair (since you’ll be keeping the left), which means you don’t need to worry about putting wear on them to keep them in returnable condition. Wear them. If the right doesn’t loosen up in a week or two of moderate use, upgrade the right foot to the next size. It is pricey, you’re right. But what’s the alternative? And who knows, maybe your test with this first pair will work out beautifully and you won’t have to lay out any more cash after all.
Best of luck, and let us know how it goes!
Just got my KSO 42 today. Seems my right great toe is snug compared to the left, almost not comfortable. Going fora run in the morning too see what they r like
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Just received my KSO Treks size 40 in the mail yesterday. As I am more likely a 40.5, I knew they were going to be a little snug when ordering. After putting them on and wearing them around the house for awhile, I began having the same concerns as the others mentioned above (big toe sometimes touching the the rubber at the front of the shoe). I am worried that if I move up to the 41s I will not be happy with the extra room throughout the shoe. Additionally, after reading the postings here my original inclinations have been confirmed–I will keep these shoes, break them in slowly, and will hopefully not regret my decision.
A little more information–I have not run much for about two years. I was running regularly before then for a few years, but after suffering from ITB problems, running became nearly impossible. I am hoping that these FF, in addition to a heightened awareness of my running gait and posture, will help get me back into some mileage.
Thanks!
In response to both Craig and Matt above: definitely give the FFs some time to break in. As you will see from my posts above, I had the same problems. It is weird, but they really do stretch or relax after a week or so. That first wearing can be disconcerting for sure. I am really glad I stumbled across this site and learned that others had gone through the same thing.
One thing I should mention after reading Craig’s post: I somehow had ITB problems despite wearing the FFs and running in what I thought was a more natural and efficient mid-foot strike manner. I think the inflammation may have been brought on by running lots and lots of laps on a 200M indoor track. All that turning made my knee quite angry. I ended up taking a total of about two weeks off (one week off – run/relapse – and another week off), but my IT band calmed down, and I am back to about 100%. The only problem now is that it has snowed a lot here in Chicago, and KSOs, as awesome as they are, don’t do so well in wet and snow. I can’t wait to get out of my over-built (but cushy) Adrenalines and back to the KSOs. Unfortunately, I know I will have to get used to running in them all over again.
I guess my point is this: Take it easy at first with the KSOs. You have to run in a very different way barefoot than in shoes. Expect a long learning/comfort curve, but stick with it. I suggest reading ChiRunning to get a better idea of good mid-foot strike posture. Just take it slow.
Also, stretch those calves religiously. They will hurt.
Good luck to everybody and thanks again to Roderick for the great site.
Just got the KSO’s I ordered online two days ago. My foot measured a shade under 10.5″, which corresponded to a size 41 in the KSO style. My initial impression: WOW these are tight! I struggled mightily to get the heel strap over my heel. Once I got past that, the first feeling was that of very noticeable tightness on the big toe and little toe. Using my fingertips it feels like the big and little toes are pushed right up against the end of the toe pocket. But the middle three toes have plenty of space. My big and little toes aren’t particularly long, so it’s hard to explain why the KSO’s fit this way.
I took them off after just a minute or so because my little toes started feeling very uncomfortable. I tried them on a while later, and the big toes felt snug, but more comfortable. Little toes still felt cramped. The third time I tried them on, the left foot felt pretty comfortable — in fact, now I hardly even realize I’m wearing it. But on the right foot, my little toe is extremely uncomfortable. The feeling varies from significant constriction when sitting still to mild/moderate pain while walking. It almost feels like there’s a hard seam inside the pocket right where the nail meets the nail bed.
I guess I’ll walk around the house with these periodically over the next few days before making a decision about returning them.
FYI: Perhaps due to walking barefoot extensively over the past couple of years, I have developed a front/mid-front foot strike. As minimalistic as these Vibrams may be, the added heel material (I guess?) actually cause me to have a very slight heel-strike when walking around the house.
Had an awesome run, although it was only on a treadmill. Did a 5k and felt great until the last mile. great toe on left small blister and calves sore as hell. I should have only run the 2 miles and stop when I was ahead. Going back in tomorrow and running only 20 minutes and building it up from there , definitely a learning curve, especially when muscle memory comes into play
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[...] size. But I did some googling and found that a snug fit is standard, and actually what you want. Several people noted that the ones that felt too snug at first soon adapted and perfectly. So far I am finding the same. [...]
Just curious. Has anybody else noticed their perceived effort level in the Vibrams is a bit higher than in regular running shoes?
I am really enjoying running in my KSOs (when winter allows), but I have noticed I seem to need to run a bit harder to maintain the same speed I would achieve when running in my Brooks. I imagine it might be due to the cushioning factor, i.e. when I run in the Brooks, I subconsciously take longer strides because my foot is more protected. This definitely does not mean I am running better in the Brooks. I know, in the KSOs, my strides are shorter, faster, and what I believe to be more efficient because they have to be. That’s the whole point.
I would assume that, with time in the KSOs, my speed vs. perceived effort will come to be similar to what it is when running in shoes.
Also, has anybody here attempted a good long run in the Vibrams? My max so far is about 4. I would love to use them for marathon training this summer and fall, but I don’t think I will be ready physically. I will probably use them for my shorter weekly runs and then revert (I chose that word on purpose) to a more cushioned shoe for the long runs.
Aaron
Ran again today, slow and only 20 minute interval. Calves felt great, less burn, and NO pain in knees or back, (whew!) going to keep stepping it up until I reach a 5k and then hopefully beyond. Lots of stairs in the gym, unbelievable what weight training feels like in them!
@Aaron – I’m not the best person, perhaps, to give a response to your question of perceived effort between shoes vs. VFFs, as I’ve never really had a good run in shoes and my entire time spent as a “runner” has been sans shoes, but I can at least speak to perceived differences from run to run in general.
My experience has been, especially in the early phases of running, that there are days when I seem unable to maintain proper form as well as I’d like as a result of a.) fatigue or b.) general inability to concentrate. And when my form goes down the toilet, I end up running with a slightly longer stride, landing a bit more on my heel, collapsing my upper body and injecting more “effort” to move my body down the road. Absolutely everything feels out of whack and alignment, and the entire process is tedious and filled with effort.
By contrast, when I’m running well – which thankfully is quite regularly now – my body is erect and upright, my core is strong and stable, my upper body has hardly any movement, my legs remain underneath me with a relaxed mid/forefoot strike, and I seem to glide along effortlessly.
You mention that your stride in VFFs is shorter and faster, as it should be (well, it should probably be the same in shoes too, but…
, but I wonder if perhaps you might still have a smidge of a heel strike leftover from your shoe-running. You mentioned cushioning, and when I think cushioning I think heel. Why? Because when I am running well on the mid-to-fore of my foot, cushioning is the furthest thing from my mind. When I’m landing well, it is soft and easy and my foot seems to absorb and distribute impact well. By contrast, when my form gets sloppy and my heel starts to strike, there is less “flow” to the run and a more pronounced stop-and-go, jarring effect, and a wish that I had more cushioning. 
When running with heel, the process seems mechanical and I am forced to expend energy to keep the machine working. When I am not running with heel, the process seems more natural and organic, more fluid, and not much energy/effort is used.
All that to say… though I can’t compare to shoes, I personally find that running in VFFs can be quite effortless. It becomes effortFULL when I’m tired, running improperly, or when I’m *trying* to run. Do I have any advice? Well, likely none that you haven’t figured out for yourself, but here it goes:
-Concentrate on your core, maintain good posture and focus on your lean.
-Be aware of your foot strike and over striding.
-Pick up your feet, don’t push off!!!! Pushing off is an easy way to inject more effort, and it’s not needed. Just lift the feet. Don’t use them to push your body forward.
-Relax, relax, relax!
In regards to your particular foot strike, have you tried taking video of your stride and strike? In the beginning, I was *convinced* that I had finally nailed a solid mid-foot strike – until I looked at video of myself. Watching that, analyzing it and working extra hard to correct my stride (and confirming again with more video) was how I was able to make the transition. And if you can (I know it’s cold there right now…), try to get in some genuinely barefoot runs. The more you can go barefoot, the better feedback you’ll get, which will help to naturally correct your stride, and you’ll be able to carry that over into your VFF running. VFFs are AMAZING little funny feet and I love them to pieces! That said, it’s still possible to have more of a heel strike while using them than one would like. Run barefoot to eliminate it, and then slip the VFFs back on.
As for distances, there too I’m not the best person for feedback. My regular runs are only 5 to 6 miles, but they are quite comfortable. Terrain is typically mixed asphalt and concrete, but as I travel constantly I’ve also run on my fair share of dirt, rock, trails, gravel, etc… Early on I did a slow and easy 7.5 miles on hilly mixed terrain and it was blissful. I’m simply not quite yet there as a runner in general to give feedback on the longer distances such as marathon, but I hear many reports of marathons and even ultras run in VFFs. Over on http://birthdayshoes.com there are several reports, including a half marathon:
http://birthdayshoes.com/index.php/lynn-s-half-marathon-in-five-finger-ksos
and a full marathon:
http://birthdayshoes.com/index.php/chad-runs-his-first-marathon-in-his-black-five-finger-ksos
and Mike Carroll over at http://redrocksbluesky.com has some great reports of all the miles he’s logged in his KSOs.
I’m personally very excited and looking forward to running these distances and more, but as it stands, I’m still a newbie.
Let us know how things progress!
An update to my previous post: I was able to do a comfortable 6 miles in the KSOs (and Injinji socks) yesterday. There were some wet spots on the route, but my feet didn’t feel cold until the end. I was delighted with how I felt. I took Roderick’s advice, worked on my form, focused on short, quick strides, and tried to stay light. Had my toes not been cold, I could have done another mile easy. My calves are a bit tight today, but its nothing like when I first started running barefoot. The prospects are good for even longer runs in the Vibrams in the future. As for going barefoot: I’m going to wait until it warms up a bit and they stop salting the sidewalks.
On a side note: At the halfway mark, I was stretching and a biker stopped to ask me about the KSOs. He said he had been researching them on-line but had never seen anybody running in them. I was more than happy to offer my opinions and insight. In retrospect, I am surprised I haven’t seen more runners wearing Five Fingers and/or running barefoot. It hasn’t been that cold. I hope to see more in the Spring.
Hi, I’m not the previous Russ, but a different one that just stumbled onto your site. Great information by the way!
My experience with VFF sizing has been similar to Dorothee’s in that one foot fits better than the other. I have some toe-length differences between my feet. On my right foot, the 2nd and 3rd toe are visibly longer.. not by much, but there’s a difference. I was sized to be in between a 44 and 45. I probably could have gotten away with a 44 if my toes were of equal length. As a compromise, I decided to always wear Injinji socks with them to try making up some of the slack.
After about 3 months, I’ve developed calluses on the ends of those toes, with one toenail turning black. I believe that will go away as the toenail grows. Overall I’m happy with the size, but now I can’t help but wonder whether the 44s would have broken in. Has anyone had the same problem and broken in a pair with their smaller toes?
Hi everyone! This is a great discussion and my experience is the same. My second toe is a tad bit bigger than my big toe, with my largest measurement being right under 10 1/4 “. I thought this would give me a bit more room in the big toe, but I was wrong. I went with KSOs, size 40, as these are for a measurement of 10 1/4″. I spoke with Vibram today and they said that the reason KSOs drop a size is due to the extra room based on the design. They said that a 40 is a 10″ VFF that can accommodate up to a 10 1/4″ foot. My biggest concern is that both big toes are slightly crowded and the left has a small indention in it from the seam. Also, when I flex my feet in all directions, 3 or 4 of my toes hit the front of the toe pocket. I have read everybody’s post and think that I should try it out…potentially an expensive decision if I am wrong. Sitting in a chair, with my feet resting on the balls, it feels like my toes are being pushed a bit. Thoughts? Also, I am concerned about going up a size, as my pinkie toe will probably just make it in the toe pocket with the 41. This could lead to tripping, stubbing, etc. I was also thinking that this could be a result of my toes not being used to the glove like atmosphere. Any help would be great!
Thanks….
@Matt – It’s a tough call, and ultimately it comes down to how you personally feel about it. You’ve read the report and the comments here, so you have a good amount of info with which to make your decision, but I’ll add this personal response to your question as well.
Concerning a couple of your toes hitting the front of the little toe pockets when you flex your feet… You’ll be the best judge as to whether or not it’s uncomfortable or not, but know that my big toes are virtually always in contact with the front of the pockets. Even when my feet are not flexed, there’s contact. It’s not crammed. It’s not uncomfortable, but there is contact. It’s snug. Like a second skin. And it doesn’t restrict movement.
My biggest concern would be the seam leaving an indentation in your foot. I’ve had my troubles with a seam in the past (wet-weather running and abrasion), but in general, seams have never presented a problem and I’ve never experienced a seam leaving and indent.
I think that you have valid concerns regarding your pinkie toe and moving up a size though. That one fact alone may make your decision for you.
But it all comes down to this – yeah, they are going to feel weird and odd for a little while. They are something new. But try to step out of your head and stop analyzing for a moment, and just see, if you wear them around, if they are “comfortable”. Stick to the house and don’t put any actual wear and tear on them if you’re concerned about a return. Chances are good that your initial reaction is just to the odd nature of them. But only you can tell if they are in fact too tight, or just right. Don’t dwell on any particular toe for a while. Just see how they feel “overall.” If it turns out that your feet are sore or cramped, or forced into an awkward position (which you’ll realize if you wear them for even a little bit around the house), then you might have to consider alternatives. But then, you may find that you entirely forget about them and love them (which is of course our hope!).
Best of luck!!!
Thanks Roderick.
Alright…three runs down. 1 mile, 1.5 miles, 2 miles and I love the VFFs. They have relaxed quite a bit and feel pretty good. I still have the indentation in my big toe, but it does not bother me. I am struggling a bit to get my form down, but I have decided to just run and have fun. When I do that, I start to cook and I get into a groove. I have realized that I am thinking too much about foot strike and I end up to far forward on the foot and my ankles confirm this. Trying to land in the mid-foot and keeping my feet under my center of gravity is a lot to process. I have stopped thinking and my body kind of falls in place. I found out today that uphill running is awesome in VFFs. Your strike is automatically a mid-foot strike and it feels like you are walking on air. I wish I could replicate that on flat surfaces. I am having a few problems lifting my feet and hope to get better as time goes by. That’s the update and I will keep you informed of the VFF fit in the future.
@Matt – you know, after your messages here, I checked on my own foot after wearing my VFFs, and sure enough, there are some “embossed” spots here and there. Nothing to worry about, I’d say, unless it’s irritating or chafing!
I hear ya when it comes to thinking too much about foot strike. Typically, when you’re able to just let go, it takes care of itself. I suffer from the same analysis paralysis though.
FWIW – Going *completely* barefoot will help you to perfect the strike and stride. If you do that now and again, to train your body and get it accustom to the motions, it will carry over to the VFFs easier.
Thanks for the information. I think I just learned the hard way about TMTS. I am very early in my transition and five days ago was my 7th run in them. The next day my left ankle hurt quite a bit. The pain was on the outside of my achilles tendon and right below the ankle bone. I tried running on it two days later, as the pain was pretty much gone, but it was not really gone. Every time my left foot made contact with the ground, the pain was there. The run that I think I injured myself on was different from the rest. The first 6 were in my neighborhood, mainly on asphalt, up and down hills, etc. The 7th was on a spongy running track. My right ankle is fine. I spoke with a friend today who has been running in VFFs for years and she asked me the question before I told her about the run…which direction were you running. I thought about it and she pointed out that until my ankles become stronger, track running is bad. As I was pretty much in a continual left turn for 2.25 miles, that is why my left ankle is injured. I have started icing, elevating, and not running. I am going to give it a week or so and see where that leads me. I have started more ankle stretching focusing on all the tendons in my ankles and feet. Do you recommend anything else?
Thanks for all the post folks. Glad to know that i was not the only one with this concern upon putting them on out of the box. I have been experiencing the same tightness in my left foot (its a little longer) where my right fits great, but based on all these comments i think i am going to just ride them out and let them take their own course. Thanks for the feedback.
Another big thank you for posting this! I just received my KSOs today and was worried about snugness on my left big toe (tiny amount of pinchy tenderness when flexing up) but I’ve put them on at the office while sitting at my desk and they’re already improving.
I think that it’s not the rubber that breaks in, but the fabric that is attached to the toe cups – it must stretch to allow the rubber at the end of the cups to be pushed out by one’s toes after a few hours of use.
In any event, they’re feeling almost perfect after just a few hours of use without even walking. I’m (now) confident that they’ll feel great when I go for a short hike tomorrow!
Nice to find this site. I just ordered two pairs of the new Bikilas. Using the ruler method my feet measured in at just at/maybe a hair’s width beyond 10 1/4th, so I ordered both sizes 40 and 41. 40 was definitely too tight, and 41 feels great… except for the big toe, hehe. The sizing instructions say the longest toe should be “grazing the end of the toe pocket,” though it feels like it’s bumping up against the end of the pocket, especially when I flex up. Not sure if I should order the 42s, as my feet definitely aren’t near 10 3/4th inches long.
For those of you who have gotten used to it, do you find that it actually stretched to a better fit, or that you just got used to that big toe snugness?
Welcome to Travis and Rich!
@Travis – I think you’re right, it likely *is* the fabric that is stretching! Hope your hike goes well, and thanks for the feedback regarding how yours felt better after a few hours of minimal, non-walking use! Just wearing them for a while is sometimes enough.
@Rich – I’m glad that you referenced the sizing instructions. I’ve been meaning to post a some of the copy from the Vibram website. I think when considering whether or not the fit is too tight or not, we all need to keep in mind Vibram’s own very wise words:
“Although it is perfectly fine for your toes to graze the end of the toe pockets, make sure that each toe can extend fully. If any of your toes are scrunched or curled due to lack of space, you need to go up in size.”
Scrunched and curled are bad. Feeling the end, feeling the pressure, is okay, so long as it doesn’t force the toe into a new position.
Sounds like your 41s might be just fine Rich!
Thanks so much for posting this! I’ve been trying to decide between the 39s and 40s, the salesman at the store said I should go with the 39 for sure but for some reason the loose fit on the 40s feels so much better. I’m even more conflicted after reading this http://barefoot-running.com/blog/?p=85 will you read it and give me your opinion on it?
i also got my vff on monday and i too feel the tightness around the big toe. after reading the comments i too will wear them some more and see how it goes. but the thing that concerns me more is the location of the seams inside the toe pockets which put pressure from the side especially on my big toes (see the picture at http://bayimg.com/AaOGcAaCj ) is that something to worry about? did your vff leave the same kind of marks and did those go away after the shores are worn in?